Me?
(By Tsem Rinpoche)
Dear Rinpoche,
I heard someone saying that if we look close enough the “Me” that exists in the morning is not the same “Me” that goes to sleep at night. Since we are a collection of moments due to cause and effect. This had me thinking; if the “Me” that is alive right now, is not going to be the same “Me” in a future life; then why bother striving for Buddha hood in the first place? It won’t be “Me” who finally fulfills the vow of becoming a fully enlightened being for the benefit of all. Can you please share your thoughts on this? -from Rafael
Dear Rafael,
That is a good question…I like it.
The me in the morning and night are ‘different’. The me now and in future lives are ‘different’. But that is because this me is still subject to impermanence due to it’s unenlightened nature.
Once enlightened..it remains the same me…LOL.
Thanks, TR
From: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/question/rafael-3
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About all we can do in life is be who we are that’s call ME. Things in life are always changing. Nothing stays the same as everything is subject to change. Everything is changeable , everything appears and disappears in a moment. Everything in life is just for a while, it comes and goes nothing belongs to us. We need to change to have our mind transformed by learning, practicing Dharma and accept the law of impermanence. There is no blissful peace until one passes beyond the agony of life and death.
Every of us have a different personality…..a different “Me” in the morning and at night.As long as the “Me’do no harm to others but benefits others the ‘Me’ will be the same “Me”.We need to change to be a better “Me’ to make a BIG difference in life.By learning , practicing Dharma will lead us to happiness .
Thank Rinpoche for sharing.
I think the ‘Me’ will keep changing because we are still not enlightened yet. Our mind and thought keep changing every seconds. As long as we are still not enlightened nothing is stable or permanent. However, we can strive to achieve a better ‘Me’ by changing our attitude, mind, practise and doing more dharma work to transform ‘Me’.
Thank you Rinpoche for the sharing.
Amazing stuff from Rinpoche.
Permanence can only exist once we are enlightened.
The ‘me’ keeps changing because it is essentially impermanent. The important thing is that the changing ‘me’ becomes progressively transformed into a better ‘me’, less self -cherishing and more focused outward toward others, towards serving, helping and benefiting them .
As the goal is Buddhahood, a state of full awakening,there should be no more change in the ‘me’ ultimately. In fact, there should be no more ‘me’ nor ‘you’. No more duality.
This is really tough question for the deluded worldly being like me to understand.Let’s try to answer it from what we had learn.
From the Lamrim, what that precipitated us to took rebirth into samsara are Karma and Delusion. The “Karma” part are responsible for resultanting us taken a physical form as human or an animal and etc in this life together with train load of others karmic imprint for example. The “Delusion” part arises from “ignorance,ma Rig Pa” mean not knowing, lack of wisdom hence with the five contaminated aggregates.
In the Name and Form (nama-rupa)link from chart wheel of life chart (twelve dependent link), “Form” link is formed the moment the white of father and the red of mother met( the composition of the 4 great element ie. earth water fire and wind). The “name” link are the four contaminated aggregates ie feeling, recognition(perception), compositional factor(volition), consciousness.
PabongKha Rinpoche said If we have the Karma but without delusion, karmic imprint by itself could not precipitated another rebirth. If we have not the Karma but with Delusion, the delusion will be the cause for us to had the Karma.
Knowing that both Karma and Delusion we had are non-static in nature. Karmaic imprint could be cleared with true refuge and applying the 4 opponent power with renunciation or Boddhicitta motivation. Delusion or ignorance (unaware of reality)can be defeated through acquire of Wisdom(knowledge) through study, debate, meditation.
The above theory could all be summed up to what Tsem Rinpoche advised us. De-learn( abandon of non virtue), Relearn (cultivation of virtues)so that it become your very second nature.Love,compassion, boddhicitta, clarity of mind…you fill up the rest!
The Mahayana tenet assert that it is possible for a rebirth with uncontaminated aggregates just as a Buddhisattva could take rebirth in samsara without being sully by it.where else the Hinayana school state otherwise.
Back to the original question, the “me” in the morning is not the same as the “me” in the evening.
There are two parts constitute to the “me” here, the “Physical me” and the “mental me “. The “physical me” is nonstatic could be easily understood by examined for example:that the “me”are not the same as when we are a toddles and the adult us now.
The “mental me”: We could be happiness in the morning and greatly agitated in the afternoon and so on.There are nothing but a series of mental stream that arise and fade away.
The view(delusion)we hold that things are as permanent or wanting them to be as we wanted causes great agitation in our mindstream.
These understanding lead us to a “mini” scale realisation of the 3 seals of Dharma
that is impermanence,Dukkha (unable to satisfy), non-self.
Why bother to attain Buddhahood? The very same suffering,unhappiness that we experienced in our course of life that are the reasons for us the search for a permanence happiness! ie. to become someone that fully understood the very nature of phenomena happen around us and take positive reaction to it with wisdom (two levels of self liberation or liberation for others benefit).By constant training ourselves in this life with virtuous action of body, speech and mind will leave an Karmic habituation imprint into our mindstream, the same imprint is what we bring forward to our next life though we could have another totally different physical body.
From the original post it suggested that Rafael had the notion of the same physical body are that being brought forward when he mentioned “It won’t be “Me” who finally fulfills the vow of becoming a fully enlightened being for the benefit of all”.
Pls. correct me if my understanding of the subject is obscure and could lead to further misunderstand of the Dharma.
Hand Folded.
Dear Rinpoche, I still don’t understand what was Rafael talking about. Especially the morning me and the night me hhare different. Maybe he is saying thathe has a split personality or something even more conplicated. What is the difference between the morning me and the night me. I think there aren’t any answers. Well, that is for me. Not sure about others.
Wow, this had me in a waddle for a bit I had my sister explain it to me. From what I understand, the question is stating that because the me in the morning is different to the me that goes to sleep, why strive for Buddhahood? The me is subject to impermance because we are in samsara so the me is subject to karma therefore the me would always change. When enlightened the me will then stay the same me because that me is no longer subject to karma. Because the me would remain the same when enlightened is because an enlightened being can no longer denegrate once achieving the wisdom and compassion of Buddhahood.
Hi, there is no me to start with. And no me to end with …. even in Buddhahood , in enlightenment nothing stays the same. That’s the understanding of the truth.
Everything is subject to impermanence or change. Even your own mind. Nothing is set in stone. Nothing is solidified
I understand there are two components to mind: the gross and the subtle. The gross mind is the mind that we are aware of. This is the mind that changes. Where I become confused is in regards to the subtle mind. I understand that the subtle mind carries the seeds for enlightenment. What I’m unsure about is whether or not the subtle mind is permanent in that this is the mind that undergoes rebirth after death, and that it is also impermanent that it is capable of casting off the delusions of the gross mind and be able to transform under the proper conditions? Please help me understand. O.o
Thank you Rinpoche, I absolutely love this explanation of yours. It cannot be clearer and more precise than this.
One of the best explanation of “Dependent Origination” is here http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books6/Bhikkhu_Buddhadasa_Paticcasamuppada.htm
Yet, this is not all the True!
There is a point from which words are not of any help.
LOL I love this, such a wonderful conundrum! I guess even the me of ‘now’ is different from the me in the next second. Biologically, it is said that our cells are changing all the time, so even on a physical level we are always ‘different’ and renewed. On an inward level, I guess the nature of our thoughts, speech and action also determine how much we are changing. Karma can change in an instant if only our thoughts and perspectives change; in which case the ‘me’ also changes from instant to instant, momentarily.
This is quite empowering actually – the thought that we are determining our futures and initiating change (whether good or bad!) at every given second.
Our mind unstable like a monkey mind. Even when we doing our Sadhana, our mind still think about food, the next thing in our mind will be what are we having for dinner. That means we are totally not in control of our mind until we actually achieve enlightenment. Hence we need to do meditation to come to calm our mind.
For “normal” people, lay people and such… the “me” is never constant. From child to adult, our personalities kept changing, some traits improve, we gain more wisdom in certain areas, some bad habits remain and ingrain, we may not want to learn anymore. We can’t decide how we want to be, and we know how we SHOULD be, but yet we can’t convince ourselves to be that. If you watched a video of yourself 10 years ago and compare with how you are now… you’d probably cringe or laugh at how you were at that time!
If you watch Tsem Rinpoche’s youtube video teachings say 10 years ago, and you watch his teachings now… his personality and level of wisdom and compassion has been consistently at such highest state. I guess once one has realised true compassion and wisdom, one’s expression of it does not change or “improve further” with the years… because one is already “there” – the point of no more learning (?)
Hmmm..makes lotsa sense..giving it a shot!! Thanks TR! Love & Light, Alda
A lot of us are interested to know what happens in the state of enlightenment, as when we pray and take refuge, we always begin with “I and all sentient beings, until we reach enlightenment, go for refuge to Buddha, Dharma and Sangha”
Rinpoche has once said in his teachings, as long as there is “ME” or “I”, there can be no enlightenment. In other words, as I interpret it, the “Ego” does not exist any more when in enlightenment. No ego, no self…… How does it feel? I really have no clue, perhaps it is a state of nothingless….the complete cessation of karma and thus sufferings. a continuum state of happiness….
Thanks Rafael for such a thought provoking question and all those who have shared here.
As Rinpoche says, the state of Enlightenment is a permanent state as the Me doesn’t change anymore.When we are fully enlightened, then we are totally free from suffering, as there is no more cause for suffering left.
However,Nirvana means “cessation of suffering” – a state attained by an arhat. It is not a permanent state: when an arhat, in Nirvana,realizes that he hasn’t attained ultimate freedom from suffering or full enlightenment, he will want to be reborn in samsara and begin to tread the Path all over again.(This is what I understand from Rinpoche’s teaching and from the Lamrim).
Two amazing questions in one day – AND it’s sunny outside. It’s times like these I’m saddened by impermanence…
I think the “me” most of us refer to isn’t the “me” who will work towards and eventually attain Enlightenment. I have to say first of all that this is an excellent question from Rafael. I used to ask the same question all the time (only, with God): If everything is how it should be, if every experience is a result of karma, if God has designed me in this way, then why bother to change anything, especially spiritual practice? If karma has deemed me selfish in this life, who am I to argue?
But let’s say (for extreme effect, and to quickly illustrate the point) that you are attacked and left badly wounded in the street. You wouldn’t just lie there because, naturally, the bleeding wounds will heal in their own time or – if you run out of time and bleed to death, well, that’s just how it’s meant to be. No, you’d scream for help, call a doctor, get to hospital – whatever it takes. If you had any means of bettering your condition, you’d do everything in your power to do so.
It’s similar with the mind. I’m not the 5-year old child I was 23 years ago (cringe!). If I see a balloon now, or an ice-cream truck, they are not the most important things in the universe any more (pretty close, though).
However, everything I have been and everything I have experienced is the sum of who I am now. If, at the age of eight, the young boy didn’t ask the school minister about people who are reborn again, and if he was satisfied with being told it was nonsense, I might be a Christian now. But thanks to the eight-year old boy feeling something didn’t quite add up, it lit a spark and eventually helped me to where I am now in spiritual practice.
So I wouldn’t say the “me” from this morning ever vanishes entirely. Elements of who we have been all our lives are still with us in some form or other. As with all things, spirituality to me seems a progressive thing. Without the “me” of this moment, there’s no possibility of the “me” of the future attaining Enlightenment.
Therefore, as I see it, one must “bother” because one has every possibility of bettering the state of the mind. You are the you of your future lives – your mind now contributes to the mind you will have 20 lifetimes from now.
The “wrong” perception of “me” is when you look at “Rafael” who (I make the following up, since I don’t know your likes) enjoys coffee or plays guitar or loves to read poetry. We define ourselves (usually) by external labels. “I’m a Buddhist” “I’m a musician” “I’m a writer”. In my next life, perhaps I won’t be able to play a single note or write a single word, so I have to conclude that these things aren’t “me”, even though my gross mind thinks these things are exactly who I am.
When you reach Enlightenment (so I’ve read), you don’t stop making mistakes, and you don’t suddenly become divine (there’s a story that suggests directly after his Enlightenment, the Buddha encountered a merchant who asked him what he had discovered. The Buddha gave such a fanciful explanation of what he had attained and the merchant thought him a mad man. Later – post Enlightenment – the Buddha realised he made a mistake and that he would have to explain what he had discovered more skilfully in future).
Enlightenment seems to be the way to true happiness, to cease suffering through desires, attachments and aversions. You don’t stop facing problems, but whatever you face, you truly recognise the nature of it and – as a result – are able to let go and enjoy lasting happiness and contentment because of that ability.
Seems worthwhile enough to me to continue to bother…
Amazing question, Rafael – thanks!
Kind regards,
Sandy
Dear Lama, I not sure if this is a silly question. If Life and everything in Samsara is impermanent, is there “permanence” In Nirvana? I guess life is ever changing because cause and effects are always at work, as past karma also is. If Enlightenment is free of cause and effects, what is the state of Enlightenment? What happens in that state? thank you Lama.
Well, I know this is a long time coming. Here’s my answer to your queries if you don’t mind. When a being achieve full enlightenment, he/she cannot degenerate or reverse from that state because wisdom and compassion of a Buddha is the natural state of our mind. Therefore, when we become enlightened, we have just realized the true nature of our mind. Here’s how the Buddha described his enlightenment in 3 stages:-
1. During the first watch of the night, the Buddha discovered all of his past lives in the cycle of rebirth, realizing that he had been born and reborn countless times before.
2. During the second watch, the Buddha discovered the Law of Karma, and the importance of living by the Eightfold Path.
3. During the third watch, the Buddha discovered the Four Noble Truths, finally reaching Nirvana.
imho : morning , night .. , 9 pm , 12 am ..what we call ” the time ” is just a label and we use it to define somethings and caught us in a routine habitual , we scheduled our own activities with that labelling .. well , every moments the mind keep changing and create some cause and effects so does our own speech and activities ,, we could not sitting and hiding some place means not to do any activities of these … , and of course a continuum of mind , speech , activities that still “yourself “.. but the moments of each continuum is not a previous you already .. correct my opinion if i am in wrong views , i need to study and know more as well , thhks