Get Your Money Back
Jan 7, 2011 | Views: 882
My advice to you is not to undertake the spiritual path. It is too difficult, too long, and is too demanding. I suggest you ask for your money back, and go home. This is not a picnic. It is really going to ask everything of you. So, it is best not to begin. However, if you do begin, it is best to finish. ~ Chogyam Trungpa (Berkeley)
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Chogyam Trungpa was a Tibetan Buddhist meditation master and holder of both the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages of Tibetan Buddhism. He was recognized for playing a pivotal role in the transmission of genuine Buddhadharma to the West. Simple and meaningful advice by Chogyam Trungpa. Nothing is easy and no short cut to learning Dharma. We have to endure hardship to learn something like Dharma or what ever so. Never give up once we decided to learn and practice. We must face the problems or rather obstacles along the way, there is always a way to over come it with courage.
Consistency and perseverance are very important.
From setting up goals, realising the dream and seeing it through, only one can achieve the ultimate result. Hence, what we mean by having body, speech and mind as one. Otherwise, when we’re outside looking in, we just see the things that will be materialised and admiring it but not achieving it. Isn’t it pathetic? We have to ‘walk’ the path.
Many believe that to find your spiritual path, one must be a follower of a certain religion or faith. I find spiritual journey is something that is very personal, regardless of what you believe in when it comes to everything else in life. Our spiritual life path is deeply connected to a passion or purpose. Without passions in life, it can be difficult for one to truly understand where they are headed.
There are many spiritual travelers will not expect to reach their goal in their present lifetime, while others may realize that they do not really need to travel anywhere. This journey process requires very strong willpower and causes much self inflicted pain. It’s also remarkable when we want to make a good progress in the right spiritual path it is important to never underestimate the power of karma.
Sometimes we may simply need to wish others well on their journey, creating a new space for both sides to reflect on what truly matters. Thanking you for the lovely choice and a meaningful sharing.
Powerful ,simple and meaningful of the advice by Chogyam Trungpa (Berkeley). Very straight forward. It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up and move on, but just as much to stand up to our friends. Success is not final, failure is not fatal, It is the courage to continue that counts. Once we begin ,we must have the courage to continue ,not to give up without trying our best.
Thank you Rinpoche for these advice for us to have a deep thought.
Very direct and meaningful..
A lot of people think that getting into spiritual is easy and just do what they like and selective about what they want / like. In fact, real spiritual journey is to work on our own self so that we can be a better person. At times, there will be a lot of battle and fighting within our own self and our negative values. However, when we really overcome it, it seems like it is actually so much easier and we can feel the happiness and free..
I remembered Li Kim once tell me, do not use the obstacle as excuse to not doing good.. in fact, we should push ourselves to do more to create more positive conditions and get more merits so that we can get a better condition to learn and practice Dharma. If we are avoiding the obstacle, we will be drag further and further away… The only way is to face it and change to be a better person each day.
This is an amazing quote! The main message to me is courage. When we want to pursue something especially in spirituality journey we need the courage whether we are prepare or unprepare to face whatever that may be coming to us. Instead of thinking of quitting or choosing the easy way out, think of how to overcome the challenges, and obstacles. Fail and get up.
Very direct quotes, love it…!!
Thank You Rinpoche..!!
Best Regards : Erickksiow
Chogyam Trungpa’s message is like a physicians warning. And then he finishes with a casual short one liner. Which leaves you with a sense of is that it?! Is that all?
Cannot be such a simple finish. Further down the page, TTR explains the other side of the Teacher Student relationship… The side of the Teacher. As one who has started I am 100% sure it’s best to finish! No other goal means as much or has as much value in life as to have a qualified teacher help show the way, teach the methods and give a result check from time to time.
Thank you Rinpoche and all the Gurus who teach even the most difficult of students.
Rinpoche, I am concerned about this very topic. Please could you explain how to repair?
Thank you.
Please read the 50 verses of Guru Devotion by Ashvagosha. He writes it very clearly and it’s translated into English.
Some thoughts from the side of the teacher and karma:
Why teach the dharma when no one wishes to transform or sincerely tries. You only offend them, make them angry, and because they can’t face themselves, become hateful of you. They even run away.. These days, one of the best ways to make enemies, is to teach others dharma or tell them what needs to change… So teaching less dharma is better during these times…transformation creates the causes for more dharma. Every time you break your promise, or give up or just run from what you are suppose to do adds to the drop teachings becoming less….Making excuses creates the causes for dharma teachings to lessen and then to stop….
The most disheartening sight for any teacher is to see a student not change after years of teachings, hundreds of repititions of the same advice although the teacher cares so much..teachers must be compassionate towards students but not to the extent of allowing them to harm others/themselves….students must be kind to teachers too..it goes both ways… Excuses and justifications for the same mistakes arising from pure laziness and selfishness. Not caring about burdening others. This all creates such powerful karma for the teacher to go away, pass way or just remain silent. It creates karma for yourself to become harder, lazier and even more closed up…remember results resemble causes…. For projects not to take off or filled with zillions of obstacles arise from this type of karma also… If the karma is so strong, then even if the teacher wants to help, your karma or collective karma will somehow stop it. The degeneration of Buddhism will arise from ‘practitioners who don’t practice…this will create the main causes for the demise of Shakyamuni’s teachings…You may think you are happy and free because your teacher stopped pointing things out to you, but the so called happiness and freedom is temporary…karma catches up and the teacher with tears in their eyes watch you experience the effects of your karma…the teacher stopped speaking to you or stopped teaching because your karma to recieve it is not supportive…dangerous…never let it go that far…never…but if it has…then it has….
Not wanting to listen to one’s teacher you say you are committed to is a sign that you have broken many promises, samayas, practices and trust. The karma that arises is any good advice given to you cannot be heard, understood or followed. Good advice might even make you angry. The sight of your teacher might make you unhappy. The sight of something that creates happiness or dharma might make you uncomfortable or run. Why? The karma to recieve good, is not enough. For example, when someone due to drinking has lied so much, cheated or hurt so many family members over and over, there is this very strong karma collected and bursting to open. The karma returns and makes him not hear advice nor want to follow giving up drinking. He/She may know the harm and understand, but cannot stop. Or run away from loved ones who truly care…the loved ones watch with tears and apprehension as they drink themselves to oblivion or worse… The karma to harm is too strong. The karma controls the person already….A tiger needs to kill due to it being born in that state as it’s karma has opened…opened to make more negative karma in that state..
We must repair…must repair the karma. No matter how bad, samsara has so many worse states you cannot even imagine. Negative karma leads to more negative karma, it does not stand still…Do not be limited..do not let laziness and selfishness rule anymore. Remember commitment, stability and consistency are the keys to anything…repair as no one can hurt you or punish you, only your deeds returning…for some it is truly too late..for some it only seems that way…whatever the cases, try……
It’s different for everyone and every teacher though…Tsem Rinpoche
This is such an crucial message to grasp and to really understand. This spiritual path is not an easy one and is always demanding more of you where ever or whatever level you are at and it is a very challenging path. Farther you go in this work, harder it gets!
Thank you so much Rinpoche to give us this very important reminder from Trungpa Rinpoche about what Dharma is all about. Rinpoche has fully embrace his work all the way and his work is very hard. He see the whole picture, much bigger and true than mine!
Well Said!!! I will not get my money back!!! Money cannot buy spirituality. To take the spiritual path one has to endure a lot of obstacles and need to put in a lot of effort to make it work. Why??? Because we have so much negativity in us which we need to purify. Everything about spirituality is about the improvement and betterment of oneself. How much effort we put in, is how much result we achieved.
I will never give up my spiritual journey for money or anything else in the world because after a long and winding road, the end result is bliss…….
Chogyam Rinpoche’s teachings are always very interesting and enjoyable to listen to/read. I think his advice has the great benefit of being universal – what’s the point in starting anything if you aren’t willing to put in the time, effort and commitment?
As spiritual practice appears to be the highest of all, when we start, we should really commit. After all, it’s ultimately for our own benefit as well as others. However, if we really are unable to persevere and push ourselves through the difficulties that come, then it is better not to start at all, stay home and forget about spiritual practice.
Having said that, if we really look at the Dharma and recognise the value in our practice of the Dharma, we can easily see beyond the difficulties and push ourselves to achieve wonderful results that not only result in the happiness of others, but also in ultimate happiness for us through spiritual liberation.
Kind regards,
Sandy
Sandy, you understood the reason I put this post up. I don’t advocate Chogyam Trungpa and I am not against. I am neutral. It’s just how witty and how he put what I was thinking already for years. I like his way of summarizing things. We often quote from various ppl that come out with a good introspection or observation. We do not have to be their fan to quote them..it is just the quote is good. You grasped the meaning of this quote..wonderful Tsem Rinpoche
Dear Rinpoche,
I completely agree with your words. Some of my favourite journalists and commentators are people who I neither advocate nor condemn. For example, I have read and continue to read the works and words of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. There are times when I disagree with what they say, and times when I completely agree. However, as you rightly point out, a good observation isn’t tied to the qualities of the individual who makes it. In itself, it is neutral. There is no purpose of attaching ourselves and making judgements of the qualities of the individual.
Kind regards,
Sandy
The message I took away from it is that we should be extremists, not moderates, in our support of dharma–not like those weak, uncommitted “Buddhists” who use their conventional human reason and judgement to evaluate the NONCONVENTIONAL WISDOM of HOLY LAMAS like Trungpa Rinpoche (and Tsem Rinpoche). If their actions sometimes seem to exceed the limits of conventional logic and morality, they do this out of compassion for the different needs and capacities of all sentient beings. RINPOCHE, I WILL DO WHATEVER YOU SAY! EVEN IF IT IS TO SLEEP WITH MY MOTHER OR KILL THE DALAI LAMA! I GIVE 10000 % !!!
We need to check the lama first before we seal the guru student relationship.
If you think you can brave this guru student relationship only then should you embark on this spiritual relationship.
You can check with conventional wisdom whether or not this rinpoche/guru’s student are all of them negative or some are negative and some have good traits about them. If all are negative obviously run, but if some are positive and some are negative then its not the lama’s methods at fault it is the student’s. Pema Chodron was one of Chogyam Trungpa student’s, and she is now a famous teacher .
If after becoming the student of a lama/guru one still has doubts then there is no foundation for progress or growth. You can’t learn anything from someone that you keep doubting all the time. A real teacher would never do anything to harm their student. What Naropa and Milarepa went through with their gurus would be deemed as torture in this day and age and yet they appeared as fabulous realized beings under their teachers training.
Yes, i thought i was going to have something like “A Fabulous Career in the Dharma” or something. Something “Special”. I was something special. HA
You might think you have faith, but faith is really hard to have. Thinking about it is one thing, but its harder to actually put it into practice. And until you actually do that, its not faith at all. its a CONCEPT.
To apply faith and Dharma to the mind – to actually do it is a WHOLE other story. It f***ing hurts. The Great Trungpa Rinpoche was not kidding here. He really means what he says.
But its too late for me to get my money back.
Ain’t that the truth.
I do not understand what is the message trying to deliver. Aren’t Kechara Org spending so much already to spread Dharma in ten directions to benefit all sentiment beings. Also much activities continuously via Kechara Care to encourage & retain newcomers.
Hi,
I see what you mean. But the thing is, the essence of Dharma is to kill the ego. And that hurts, as much as we are identified with that false ego.
Of course, if you manage to overcome ego, then it does benefit all beings infinitely, in all directions, ‘forever’.
Making the merits by participating in all the wonderful activities of Kechara is the way to go. But if you commit, then do it all the way and dont ever give it up. I think thats what TRR is saying here.
-ACL
So…TTR endorses the spiritual credentials of Chogyam Trungpa, who required his disciples to drink hard liquor, organized a “vajra guard” (security detail) which abused people on his orders, and who posted a sign-up sheet on his door for women wanting to have sex with him?! Even the Dalai Lama refused to be seen with this guy! Mr. Bugayeff, I am appalled. (Hint: charisma is no guarantee of integrity…and neither is the title of “Rinpoche.”)
Dear Zla’od,
His Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche has posted a quote that makes perfect sense – I see no endorsement of the credentials of any individual whatsoever. I’m sure if any, shall we say, person of dubious nature were to offer good advice, the advice would stand well irrespective of the individual. Surely the content is the focus, rather than the container?
Furthermore, I’m sure if one were to look, there are countless examples of persons of a questionable nature throughout history who have provided sound advice.
It is always good practice I find to be aware of the authenticity of a source of information. I don’t say your points are untrue or otherwise (I don’t know either way), but people are always in danger of establishing opinions born from information that can sometimes be, at best, shaky.
Nevertheless, Rinpoche has endorsed a piece of advice. If we look at that advice, it is quite impossible not to endorse it.
Kind regards,
Sandy
Chogyam Trungpa advice cuts like a wisdom sword and I personally love the directness of the message! We’re not here to judge the actions of Chogyam Trungpa, to me someone like him is highly attained and what He did at that time was to tame the minds of the westerners at that time. We can see through the results of it now, how Shambala has become one of the fatest growing and influential modern learning institutes in the world.
When I read this quote I see clearly what he is saying which is a wake up slap to stop undermining the Dharma, if you join a Dharma centre with a qualified Guru and took refuge then simple, just get ready to be trained. It is like joining a gym, getting a trainer to help push you to get fit. A Dharma centre and your Guru, pushes you to make your mind fit… not your ego. Exactly as the quote says “This is not a picnic.” And if you wish to succeed in your practice, go all the way. This is not a hobby you take what you like, do as you like, come and go as you like, like this one will not gain anything, might as well don’t follow Dharma or any centres or any Guru and waste yours and everyone’s time. It is not an obligation but a conscious choice made, so no need to lay the blame on anyone. If you don’t like the teachings here, then you are free to find other teachers, teachings and methods that suit your level of thinking. But if you’ve made the decision to follow a teacher, follow the centre, the teachings, then don’t be a hypocrite and go all the way! How hard is that to understand? A
Chögyam Trungpa was a master of the Kagyu lineage who was openly endorsed by the head of the Kagyu lineage, one of the most amazing and important Tibetan Buddhist masters of our time. Also, openly endorsed by Dilgo Khyentse Rimpoche (who has a very beautiful page here on blog.tsemtulku.com), who was a master of Chogyam Trungpa since he was a little kid.
A reading of the last appendixes of Trungpa’s self-biography, “Born in tibet”, will -to an open mind- make perfectly clear the reasons behind the unconventional behavior of CTR.
Finally, consider that CTR was the first Tibetan Buddhist master to teach (and establish dharma centers) in the modern western world.
well said!